Counterparty Developer Meeting (05-04-2018)


On the Counterparty Discord, on May 4th, 2018, there was an open meeting for anyone interested in Counterparty development. The meeting was recorded and the conversation transcribed. Please review the discussion below and feel free to comment on this thread about the topics discussed.

Also, we’re looking to arrange another meeting, in the near future, where we can start to get some resolution and clarity on some of the open questions brought up during this meeting. Please, state your interest and time preferences below.

Our last meeting was May 14th, 2018:


  • Turnout more than double the last meeting!
  • Commit access remains an open issue and problem:
    • Not able to properly address, as no one attending last two meetings has access.
    • Developers with commit access, even inactive ones, will be contacted directly.
  • Discussion about how to prioritize CIPs:
    • CIP 10 - Probably top of stack. Code exist and is under review. Developers from projects that need it, that were at the meeting, committed to do review and testing.
    • CIP 6 - Probably with or after CIP 10. Would improve the efficiency of CIP 10, but is not a dependency.
    • CIP 15 - Would be nice to have, but CIP 10 would bring the most impact fee-wise. Adding SegWit fits more into an effort to adopt the latest version of Bitcoin Core and move to using indexd.
  • Concerns around testing:
    • PRs failing on Transifex.
    • Circle CI - Do we need it? Can Travis CI be used instead? Subscription renewal.
    • What’s the best way to setup a federated node for testing and development purposes?

If you want to suggest other high-level notes or changes to these ones, please message me!


Audio Recording:
Raw Audio Files:

The audio and transcription of this meeting is released into the Public Domain.



Speaker 1: All right, so uh, we are all currently being recorded and we can let it roll. All right. Welcome guys. Uh, I just want to, I just want to open this with a quicker view of the high level of what we talked about last meeting and then some items that were brought up about where we can talk about at this meeting. Generally we’d like to keep this to an hour if we can, but do they go after that people can hang around and just chit chat or whatever. But I basically last meeting that we had together was a, myself, Dante, Sean applebom and Christmas and we talked about at a high level we talked about who has committed access, who, uh, who should have committed acts as a, what can we do around curation of the steps and getting sips, uh, you know, it’s ready for a new point release basically.

Speaker 1: And we also discussed how do we get more people out to the next meeting. And so we basically doubled the number of people on this meeting. So very happy about that. That’s a big check. And then for this meeting, I think I would still like to have addressed or talked about with you guys a get hub, repo, maintenance and uh, Chris or [inaudible] duck brought up that he would like to discuss a two sips in particular, a multicenter aids and segwit as well as making the federated node stack use index d. So these are the things we’ve, uh, that had been brought up and talked about. If anyone has anything else they’d like to have, like on the stack of discussion, like need to bring it up now and we can kind of stick to those and then work through those. And then if there’s anything else we can go from there and you have objections to that format. Also bring that up now.

Speaker 1: That’s fine. Um, so one of the things that’s a shame is that, um, we’re still this, the issue of Github Repo maintenance still remains open because none of us here have committed access. Um, we may have to do some sort of more active intervention into that than having these meetings be the forum unfortunately. But, um, some of the things, for example, that I think needs to be done on the get hub that are very basic level of maintenance is I’m issuing sip numbers, but also, um, for example, account a is a domain that’s expired, what is being linked to from the repo. Um, so I like did a pull request to remove it and simple things like that. Um, but even that’s not sort of actively being reviewed. Um, one suggestion to sort of solve that rather than just complaining is just to encourage everyone here to sort of subscribe to the get hub, um, repos and so that you get notifications about them. Um, and sort of if you see something, say something basically that, that sort of. Well, I have one, I don’t want to hog up all the air. Um, maybe Chris, do you want to get into, you know, the sips and I’m index g and if you have any questions there, and I’m sure Robert from fl DC, um, is also interested in multisense. So let’s, let’s get into that because I think we have people here to parties here at both. Representing big projects with a shared interest there. So why don’t we get into that.

Speaker 2: Sure. Do you want me to start?

Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: All right, cool. Well it’s good seeing a lot of you. I haven’t seen you in awhile. Um, so just to let you know, I got to have my developers here who are taking those behind the scene to. We got todd, jared and tyler are scrum masters. They also do Java and Java script [inaudible]. Robert, can you properly introduce yourself for those who might be old school introducing this will be recorded and people won’t know who you are into. Uh, my name is Robert Ross. I am the administrator and founder folding coin. Uh, we have recently hired a new director. So those of you who used to know me as the director, I’m no longer that uh, but I am still on the board. Um, so at folding coin where we use a lot of sessions every month. Ah, we do about 1300 to 2000 sends every month.

Speaker 2: So it gets very, very expensive. And December, I think we spent like $15,000 on just distributing out folding coin and a lot of our folders will only earn like, you know, one or two folding coin. So we actually ended up spending more on the bitcoin miner fees. Then we do like what they actually receive a. So sip, sip, sip 10 and sit 15. Uh, I believe it’s those, those three, those are the big ones that we need done. Uh, so this is the first year where we’re actually building a real team. We have a development fund that we’ve been sitting on for a while and now we’re actually able to pay real developers to work for us. So that’s Kinda how, uh, jared and tyler here, how we got bill, how we got Miguel and et cetera. Now we’re in a good position to where we would like to start helping develop counterparty if we can, whether that be resources, labor hours, et Cetera, et cetera. Uh, so for this meeting, I’m, we’re, me and my developers, we’re taking notes. We really want to help. We just need to know how to help. Now I know we have issues like who has commit access and things like that and that’s kind of the things that we’re, we’re here to help with as much as we can. Uh, so, so yeah,

Speaker 3: I, you know, I just want to throw out that I think rather than having this thing running pretty much headless right now close to handlers, it’s not entirely headless, um, from the get hub perspective. But for me, someone like yourself or your project or in team, it would be, I think totally reasonable that there’d be representative from your team that actually was what were, you know, would be one of the people who actually had commit access rather than having five, uh, folks with only one of them being,

Speaker 4: uh,

Speaker 3: you know, functional or active, although he’s probably overwhelmed. So, and I think that would be a job for. So he’s really the only one that have the five that have committed access, that is,

Speaker 4: um,

Speaker 3: even paying any attention for the most part

Speaker 1: action item from based on having two meetings where no one has come in access. We need to just make an action item where we go directly to those people and kind of bring it to them. But I want to point to Robert, to you and to your development team here, the deb channel. I dropped three links. The good news is that there are three pull requests against the kind of party Lib Library or Repo worth looking at. One of them is John Vallarta’s sip 10 pull request. I have reviewed that it needs [inaudible] is really, really clever. And then it uses these lookup tables and these templates to do, uh, these multisense that would be great to have. And the codes there, it’s been re factored once. I think it just needs more review. It’s in python, even if you don’t code python, but if you’re a coder you can still review it and check it out.

Speaker 1: Uh, and there are two pull requests in relation to sub six from devin weller and one of them is a in related relation to pgs age. And that’s uh, also with the help of Ruben. And there is also a version that includes index D, which will be of interest to Christmas, but these things are, they’re a coated as pull requests ready for review. So I’m not all of this from scratch. A lot of those needs just needs more eyes on it and support and easiest way to show support and help move things along is to review it, comment. Um, that’s like, that’s a great start for a, at least for sure if it’s 15 or much harder tasks. Uh, but, uh, I think Christmas is probably our residents segwit expert right now. Um, Chris, do you want to chime in? You have anything on the top of your mind you want to get into? Does that, does that help a, you Robert with the disease?

Speaker 2: Yeah. So while we’re waiting for Chris to respond. So yeah, we got all those links copy down and I’m taking notes on it right now. Me and a shirt and tie. We’re actually talking about this specifically before, what our big issue is right now. I’m from the people I’ve talked to throughout the last two months is we really need to find somebody on our team who really understands the code base counter party, you know, that might be jared and tyler. That’s why they’re here today to kind of sit back and learn. Um, but yeah, we do want to get somebody on staff who’s gets more familiar with it so we can start getting, Hey Chris, uh, so we can start getting some of this review process done. Now jared and tyler and a lot of the people on our team, we don’t really have a python person, uh, but we may be willing to learn. It’s just, you know, we’re kind of just collecting information today and we’ll get back with you

Speaker 1: offline. Maybe I can, I can talk to more about that. I might be available to help you get up to speed basically with the code base.

Speaker 2: OK, cool. Perfect. And actually I would be the wrong person in my organization to do that, but if we can schedule something with our developers, would you be willing to do that? Yeah, sure, definitely. Perfect. I’ll make a note of that right now. Is all about getting developers helping developers. I’d like to be on that call to Dan by the way. Sure. I’ll put that in here too, if I can jump in, jump in the things I’ve learned today, uh, to buy a new microphone.

Speaker 5: OK. Um, what, uh, so yeah, um, just, just, just go back to the WHO has access. Obviously having John here would have been great, but I think there are a few other people we can reach out to. Ruben, Robbie and Devin, maybe it’s good to, you know, reach out to them because I think one of those gave commit access to John, so I’m sure that he gave commit access to somebody else. So it’s probably best to, maybe I’ll do that. Just Ping them and include some people and just talk, Hey, you know, we should have somebody else who’s a good person. Probably get that ball rolling. Going back to the sips, the less time I spoke to John, the main thing was that he did, um, I forget the city names, but [inaudible] [inaudible] I think, or the [inaudible] he did it but he just wanted more eyes on it. So yeah, I think that would be the biggest help just to get some people. I’m like folding coin. That would be great. Myself and square. I’m just probably to go and have a look at and have some sort of review process and test it out.

Speaker 1: I’ve reviewed it based on my review. I think more of you will also. It’ll give him sort of like that, what do you call a drive or you know, some, you know, when someone’s operating with you kind of get like some extra energy. So I definitely think will help and I really don’t think it’s that far from possible point relief. So it’s probably the low hanging fruit. And um, what’s kind of great about 10 is that with the fees where they are now, where they’re fairly low with cip, [inaudible] like kind of party might be quote unquote, like unfairly cheap, which will be great.

Speaker 5: Yeah. No, yeah, I think devin did some numbers when fees are high, what it would be and uh, you know, it w it wasn’t too expensive then, but the fees now be pretty crazy. And then later down the works I can segway into that might help a bit as well.

Speaker 1: For me personally, I’ve never used segway because I’m mostly a holder. I usually use counter party. Like when I’m using a big client, it’s mostly through counterparty. Could you kind of talk about where you see [inaudible] fitting into how you and your company uses? I use kind of party.

Speaker 5: Yeah, sure. They say yeah, I think I’m probably in the same boat to be honest. Most of my sentence account counterparty sentence. So I just use the um, the going address format. So the main interest I have a segue isn’t really the fees. It was more just to make atomic swaps and that’s the second layer of things a bit a bit better. But yeah, I would say um, I think within this square wallet we have a lot of people who use it to send bitcoin and not tokens. So that’s Kinda the main motivation is just they want to send bitcoin using segwit. Yeah. Just to get the cheaper fees and to upgrade, you know, be using the latest tech. Um, so that’s kind of the main issue. The issue is that um, because we use the kind of the party no to do bitcoin sense, not having segue effects, the bitcoin part, having said that, having segwit to send tokens would make token cents cheaper as well. Obviously if you get into back sense then I guess the amount you’d save isn’t, you know, it doesn’t have. The majority of the savings will be thrilled through the batch send rather than them the segue. But if you sending individual tokens to people that swear the second comment a lot, I think at the moment, obviously fees, the cheeks, it’s not a big deal, but you know, feeds will go priced properly at some point. So it’d be good to be ready this time we’re segwit

Speaker 1: yeah.

Speaker 5: Like I think I mentioned before, it’s possible to send with segue now I’m kind of um, but it’s not ideal. Yes. So

Speaker 1: I was wondering about that Chris, because you were saying that you’ve done it and you were saying you were using like the latest version of Bitcoin and index d. um, were you generating your transaction using the counterparty library though or were you doing it just like with your own and coding? Like set up?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I did it all in javascript. So segway is really just about, it’s on the input side, right? You know, it’s a, you know, use sacred inputs as it were, what kind of party is really all on the output side you have data and the output op return. So as long as the inputs a segue, then it’s doable. That as a bit of a caveat, because obviously there’s two addressable, not does the, uh, [inaudible] 32, which starts one BC, if that doesn’t work with Canada because Canada party can’t, can’t read that, it’ll just, you know, it wouldn’t be able to understand that at all. But if you use the backwards compatible sacred, he the one that looks like a multisig address that works. So it’s possible. And the only reason why we have kind of gone forward with it is that there was an issue with counterparty where when you’re transacting unconfirmed and when it’s confirmed the, uh, the transaction hash according to counter party, it changes, it grabs the wrong one. So if you’re following an unconfirmed transaction, um, tech tax ID, once it’s confirmed will disappear and you’ll think he’s gone, but it hasn’t gotten. It’s just, it’s. So that was like a small thing that a, we want to look at first.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. So it is possible, but I think the main thing is, you know, a lot of people use counter wallet and they usually can’t play live directly. So it, you know, it’s probably best just to do it properly, we to do it and just start with the lip,

Speaker 6: the reference implementation. So that’s a benefit I think of like the cyber project is that if we can get the federated node sac to be the latest version of bitcoin core, other benefits include like smart vs like the estimates Smartfi is like a feature of the latest bitcoin. So like a lot of it’s like around fee efficiency and if we just adopted latest tech, I think that would be like just firming up the foundation anyways. Um, God

Speaker 5: for me the priorities, it’s really just using the latest stock index just because we run service with a, you know, big clean notes and it’s nice out there. The latest bitcoin core running. Um,

Speaker 6: if, if you had to break this down into smaller pieces or like you know, workable pieces like get [inaudible] here which is multi sends, I think September might have a dependency on sepsis because the way the voting works, I’m not positive on that but I think that might be true. I’m pretty sure it does.

Speaker 5: So sip to sip [inaudible] is that the P to f h?

Speaker 6: Yeah.

Speaker 5: So I need to confirm this, but the way I thought, well, the way I understood it, I might be wrong here. So I’m like, so, you know, have egg on my face. But without the Ptsa you could still multi-site but you couldn’t make send that money. You can only send like a handful in batch. But with the Pto sh you can send a lot without it. You’re still limited to like opera turn data size. But with a pizza you um, do something clever where um, yeah, your, you’re unbounded. Oh, on the size. That was my family

Speaker 6: dependent on people.

Speaker 5: No I didn’t. No, I don’t think so. No.

Speaker 6: If things are broken down, does it seem like it makes sense to do, to, to push for September and then step six, which would, you know separately or together would be great. But like if, if possible, uh, but separately is fine substitutes come in later and improve the [inaudible] and then segwit at, at the end of that. Is that uh, is that like, is that what we should be doing? Is trying to design a roadmap like that or should we be trying to. You know what I mean? I don’t know what the goal. How do we, how do we best use our resources? What I’m saying?

Speaker 5: I can’t speak for everybody, but what in my opinion, what’s needed most sand rather than segwit because like segway, we’ll send you, we’ll save you 40 percent on your transactions or something like that where if you send me individual tokens, you know it’s a big amount, but it’s not urgent at the moment where you’re doing multisense well you’re only gonna make one transaction for. So with molly sense, the overhead is not really the input. So segment will say if you’re on the inputs, have your transaction, but with molly sancha overheads on the outputs because you have lots of a well because you’re sending lots of transactions. So with molly fan because you’re only gonna have one input and lots about what. Let’s have counter play outputs, not big cleanup puts. Then molly sent. Seems like it would help people more because the people who are paying a high space that people like folding Klein and spells of genesis when they’re doing big payouts as a few projects who. Yeah, a model based on doing monthly rewards. So I think that’s the main focus

Speaker 6: like started to be island.

Speaker 5: Um, so I’ve taught me it starts off the island isn’t a reward game at the moment. Yeah. The two different projects but a reward game in Bitcoin, not tokens. I can use segwit already with that, but since it’s so sort of island I would like to do kind of like bastow consent. But I was waiting for the new steps though.

Speaker 6: Do you want to mention anything about what you’re working on India square or not but not an API?

Speaker 5: Um, do you mean the API is in,

Speaker 6: you were mentioning something about you guys were working on something but you don’t have to talk on it.

Speaker 5: Well, lucky on a few things and I think what you’re probably referring to is like the web CP thing.

Speaker 6: Yeah,

Speaker 5: yeah, yeah. Yeah. So um, yeah, I don’t want to derail the conversation too much, but pretty much, yeah, if people are familiar with [inaudible] theory and they have a thing called mathematics is one implementation. They have something called Web web three. Basically the idea is that loss of devs like to make browser apps and you know what, browser apps and things like this, but browsers, I’m not a good place to store your private keys and things like this. The more you don’t want to give you private keys or your title in your recovery phrase too. Every new project you want to join. So with what extent does with where three is that you have one secure wallet which could be like a chrome extension or it could be client side based or it could be a mobile APP is popular. I think they have uncles safer browser and that holds your keys and that loads the web app through that, which that can be crippling kidneys or whatever. And then they request your wallet to do things like signing transactions and stuff like that. So we’re just doing the same thing but for counter party and coordinate, you know, well, web x ACP because it sounds like what three and you know, it was kind of developers who are familiar with the other should, should get the idea pretty quick.

Speaker 6: That’s super incredible derailed. And I think that’s really good to hear that that’s happening. I think a lot of people can look forward to that.

Speaker 5: What kind of hoping is that? Um, the projects use it because there was, I think Joe, something similar before with token me what we want. So we don’t want to have like lots of different standards like web CP and Sep Lane, you know what I mean? So we’re trying to. Hoping that we can get the community just to use web page somewhere.

Speaker 6: We’ll use it on my projects.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. It’s pretty simple. The idea is that you can make a website or a web app or a Web game and you would just basically write in Java script web sep address with a callback and that was like use his wallet, would hear that and you know, yeah. The address. And then you’d have like website web, [inaudible] transaction, so that’s all develop nice to, to, you know, sign transactions rather than obviously liking to codes and my security, etc. But more than if I will come up later with just kind of working on the app update at the moment, which is almost ready

Speaker 6: over and out. Jared, or do you have a microphone? Jared, are you just here to units? You’re with [inaudible], right?

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Have you messed around with uh, the federated node Before?

Speaker 5: Sorry,

Speaker 6: can you just repeat that? What the, what have you messed around with a counterparty? Federated node. It’s like a bitcoin node with canterbury software on top.

Speaker 5: I have not,

Speaker 6: would be a great way to get started in mess around with it is there’s documentation and our darko and there’s also a public api you can play around with that. Just a good intro, but I’d love to talk to you about, you know, if you have any questIons and help you get some more, you know, get, get your, find your grounding or whatever. Cool.

Speaker 6: I’m really excited about. Um, 10 guys. I think it’s close. I think if you look at it, you’re going to realize like it, it’s coded, but it just needs more testing interview. I think it needs a, some testing on the test net. Like I’d like to like one of the things that’s nice about the federated node stack is like if you have a development branch, it’s really easy to update your life, get remote and like test locally, like if it works or not. And like try to, you know, create testing transactions and when the test transactions you can create test cases. Um, and once you get the hang of that, it’s actually a nice little set up.

Speaker 5: Have you tried that yet?

Speaker 6: Not yet, but uh, so john I think has been using what he, what’s called dredge test, which I don’t think it’s an actual test that it’s like a mocked up testing that

Speaker 5: yes, like internal, you generate your own blocks.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So that’s probably, it’s probably a good to do is to have some tests now. Transactions for the, for the test suite.

Speaker 5: Counterparty doesn’t have red net built in by itself, it just has tech, net or maintenance. So he had his own branch with net, I think I remember him saying, which is probably good for developers because testing can be slower than meaning that, um, which I think with tests that you get a lot of people who might mining equipment. So sometimes you get super fast blocks, you get super slow blocks. There’s like petahashes come on and off to this tiny network. So resonAtes quite good at it. Real quick, dan, just to follow uP back on what you said a second ago, can I add that to my notes of things that, uh, you and dante, we’ll talk with our devs about, about setting uP that federated node [inaudible] I think that’d be good. Uh, for jared and tyler just start learning this a, I

Speaker 6: kind of done all for it, but like I can send you a link dump and also helped me go through it. Um, but, but chris is right, like the testing. That’s weird. It’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a weird place. Blocks fast and sometimes they don’t read it all and sometimes it’s, it’s weird there, but it’s the way that a lot of the counter protests do work is by having these like transaction hashes to

Speaker 5: look up and tested the code and so it’s a part of the process. I think counter forward slash docs year. Ok, I got that. There’s an article there on federated nodes. Um, is there anything else? I feel like I’ve kind of covered my own it issues for me, kind of the takeaway thought it’d be great if um, the guys room folding coin and also I’ll try and get myself in India to work with john to do a review of a sip [inaudible]. I actually did ask john [inaudible] we were going to take a look and I was asking them, it’s like, is there a review process? Is that like a, you know, any steps to follow? And he hasn’t gotten back to me about that yet, but maybe you have my phone up and done. He said it was like every due process or something or like if you just click on.

Speaker 5: I dropped a few links in the dev channel, but one of them is to his exact pool request and if you have like a github account you can just start commenting inline on the code and that’s considered like a review. That’s it. So I just wanted to like, you know, kind of review best practices or you know, you have to write in this full much stone projects do that. But I mean are you like you’re talking about like acts basically? Yes. Maybe not even Just some sort of structure rather than just anything goes well I’m just saying that the right way to do it at all. I’m just saying I just wondered if there was a process in line. If not, I wouldn’t be. I wouldn’t worry too much about that. You can check out what I what I said I have respect for process, but I didn’t even.

Speaker 5: I didn’t even consider the process. I was like, no, I wasn’t saying that’s the way to do what. I didn’t want to be too much of a radical and just go in to see no rain outs that we need. We need some radicals when you’re a radical chris to english for that media. Just listening to you on the last meeting, you mentioned something about, uh, the fact that you were asked or offered to play a particular role with respectful to get up and could you refresh my memory about what that was? That was the, I think a couple of people, jay. Doug mentioned that and also john said I’m interested in being a custodian [inaudible] they’re looking for somebody and both my. Yep. But you know, haven’t heard back yet. So I think john was looking for somebody to kind of take of a sips and

Speaker 7: email to rape them. So I think it’s really possible that john would like to really move a lot of things forward. I know that he needs a lot of eyeballs on some of the work that he’s done. Dan has done some of that, but then again, he might have a lot of responsibility on his shoulders, you know, being a seems like a busy guy. So it was a busy guy. It probably be good to appoint other people to help them as thin as possible. You know, so it’s kind of stuck in this vicious circle. It seems to be too busy to appoint somebody, but somebody might, might, might help frame up a little bit. Well also it, it, it, it. If that’s the case and I believe that it probably is a, it’s also highly likely that you’re not going to hear back anytime soon because of the fact that they not to kind of go over him at all, but just to also reach out to a few of the other people on get help.

Speaker 7: Few people who seem to have come access like rugby and ruben mean devon, robin, john in the loop as well, but just say, hey, you know, I’m busy, but we’ve got a bunch of people who are eager to help deaf, you know. That’s. What did you saying also robert? I, I heard you try tremen oh yeah, I was going to say. Ok, so robbie and devin still have committed access because I can reach out to them too because if we can get people on our staff to get comfortable with the code base, you know, I would like to help in and helping maintenance the sips because it’s been for us, you know, it is crucial for us to get six, 10 and 15. But obviously we can help with the other ones too. Uh, but yeah, I mean w we’re, we’re really willing to push people towards this.

Speaker 7: That’s why we got to have our developers here today. So you can definitely, you know, either cc me in that email or I can reach out to him independently. I definitely want to wait for us to have somebody on staff who’s comfortable with, with counter party itself, like the federated node looking over all this review process. We’re definitely going to start small with this kind of stuff and vibrant. And here’s the thing. You have a lot of skin in the game, like probably more than most proJects and with counterparty. And the thing of it is, my belief in it just me, uh, anybody is free to disagree, but I don’t think that you would need to have your head around the entire code base for you to be able to have, let’s say commit access because you don’t have to commit to anything until you know that you are comfortable. It’s really a trust. It’s more of a trust thing and I don’t know of too many people or too many projects, you know, that have earned that trust, you know, saying that. Yeah. That’s awesome. Thank you. Yeah, no, we’re,

Speaker 5: we’re, we’re pretty good over here. What I’m saying is if you have the, a w, you know, relationships to reach out so that it’s not running close to headless because right now, um, things could move forward, but they are not because people like chris and like yourself a might well served the project to be able to move the ball forward a lot more quickly than it’s able to move right now. Yeah. I kind of think just to. I think in a way, I think the biggest roadblock at the moment isn’t so much to commit access per se. I think it’s just that, uh, it’s, we don’t have people reviewing the light to sips, um, because I think pretty much before, I might be wrong here, but devin was full time dev. I’m ruben was more involved. So I think those two in john, they kind of pretty much had it all sorted and did a stellar job. Uh, so I think now we just kind of eat like myself too. I’m, I’m, I use counterparty and I’m familiar, but I’ve, I’ve never really looked too deep into the, the counter party lib code itself. I, I’ve just use like javascript implementations. It’s more just taking the time to get familiar and doing some review and just building a fed knows on testnet I’m playing around with it. And um, I think that’s probably what we all start with chris. We’ll start with. Yeah, just jump in and play around and testing it. If you bring to [inaudible],

Speaker 6: you guys should know by the way that you can break like you can’t take down tests that it’s happened.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a good feeling when you brake testing it feels it feels good, but you should fix it quick and not built up if you did it anyways because it finds books in the code as well. Like I agree.

Speaker 7: Spit sign era. So there’s one of the developer, dan is one of the developers who actually found such bugs and actually submitted the corrections. So I think he got, I think he received bounties for that

Speaker 6: bounty. If you take down the testing that

Speaker 5: you just don’t go gentle on test now, you know, just try and, you know, just do what you want. It just makes the protocol stronger.

Speaker 6: Can I? Uh, so uh, chris, if You want, I can also help you maybe with some [inaudible] I’ve looked at a lot of the guys there. There’s several things I want to reiterate and it’s like the easiest way to get involved is to watch all the repos. I’ll get an email when something happens. I mean, for example, I have to open a pull requests for steps, uh, you know, look at those like, do you think they’re good ideas and bad ideas? The two steps I’m proposing, one of them is three letter asset names, for example, simple change to adopt what I consider like the crypto exchange standard. Another one which is a little bit more edgy and smart contract is scheduled distributions will bit more experimental, probably needs like more consideration. Some other more basic poll requests I’ve done. I mentioned the one where I pulled out commonwealth darko.

Speaker 6: That’s a very simple decision. I think, uh, other ideas about optimizing counter wallet and counter block. I’ve proposed that um, you know, this discipline and this may go to deepen the cobra gift. To give you some examples, a counter block has a configuration variable that defines certain per quote assets. Have you ever noticed on counter wallet how sep and btc are always like the quote at? It’s like, the thing is that things are priced in. Those are like the only two quote priority as it’s defined. I’ve done a poor request where we update the config variable such that things like pepe cash and fl dc and big crystals and [inaudible] sort of like things that are definitely being used as quote assets. Always default quote assets. I think that’d be a big improvement for the usability of counter wallet. Another thing I proposed is like, uh, making the max default expiration like two months, which is like instead of a thousand blocks so that if somebody wants to relist their item, it doesn’t take them a transactions to get the same length of effectiveness and then one other or bring up or to others.

Speaker 6: I’ll bring it up and then I’ll shut up is uh, right now the documentation for the camera for example, says that you can configure restricted areas. However, like the actual code is hard-coded such that like the configuration variable isn’t even used. So pushed a poll request for that. And one of the things I noticed while doing this pull request, however, is that a lot of times they fail tests and they almost always fail tests for this thing called transeffects, which is a counter last specific thing which allows like localization of the languages and it keeps failing and I think they may have updated their api. So it’s really screwing with our ability to like, you know, do the circle ci tests. And uh, furthermore I’m not sure who has access to the circle ci a, that’s another like issue possibly. So that’s just a big swath of things that have opened up on the rebound and now it’s been, you know, weeks or months in some cases and no one’s commented on any of them.

Speaker 5: Reuben subscription in that core team slack channel. So that’s why probably you didn’t see it. But yeah. So I didn’t really know what you meant by that, but now it kind of makes sense. Um, so you’ll, you’ll need a new subscription next month is what you said. So

Speaker 7: sir, well, good thing you brought it up. But. So, um, where it such a subscription needs to be, uh, you know, uh, picked up by someone, what else is required? Does it require a, someone like rubin’s level of access with get hub, uh, You know, as far as a commitment

Speaker 1: access to a configuration thing

Speaker 5: by the way instead of circles, why not use a jenkins and set up a good hook hook with it to do the automated testing

Speaker 1: if you want to take that project, that’s all you. But it’s probably deeply like integrated witH, you know, like the federated defense stack that we have. Um, but I, I went on that little, like a long list of laundry things that have been doing because uh, I want to fight against basically the narrative that like nothing’s getting done and everyone’s too busy because like I have been a contributing. Uh, and you know, I just want to point that out. Even if it’s selfish and arrogant.

Speaker 5: Big thanks to you,

Speaker 7: cool

Speaker 5: your issues and things you raised, but it’s great. I think that there is a definitely a lot of energy and people want to do it. It’s just people aren’t sure how,

Speaker 7: but that’s why it’s so important that we continue the momentum of what we are doing here. And that leads me into a question, um, and I want to ask [inaudible] [inaudible] and then I also want to get robert’s opinion. Uh, what do you think the frequency of this type of a developer meetings should be? Is every two weeks, is it every week? You know, I’m thinking either every week or every two weeks. I’m almost inclined to say every two weeks. Uh, so that it’s not so frequent, you know, that it’s too much, but it’s not so far apart like a whole month where it all falls down, you know?

Speaker 2: So we have been running monthly meetings, folding coined since like 2015. That seems to be sufficient enough. Now our code is not as complicated as counterparty, uh, we are starting to get developers and we are actually starting to push things out this year. So maybe we might increase that. But I like the month long meetings because we always do first saturday of every month. So that way the whole community knows exactly what it is

Speaker 7: where.

Speaker 5: Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, I kinda think monthly sounds like a good number if they’re kind of in between that there some sort of like public dev I irc chat thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And that’s the thing is we, I mean we use discord as a team and I mean we’re in communication all month long and then at the end of the month we review everything you are director does need to be constant communication part is crucial from a, you know, as, as much as people can. Obviously. I know a lot of people are part time in the crypto space. Uh, but yeah, you definitely want to have constant communication on something like this chord and then the monthly meeting just to kind of go over everything. Another thing, just to, sorry to interrupt people, but um,

Speaker 5: yeah, like a, it’s the best place or an official place for kind of dev channel.

Speaker 7: Perfect. It doesn’t fall off in another words. The conversations don’t die after 10,000 previous messages and we have a dev channel here. We could text a chat with one another, all the devs can join in and like drop links or whatever they have to say. And then if people want to impromptu just jump into a non recorded voice conversation for uh, you know, uh, for you to be expedient. Uh, I think that’s great. And then we could have maybe more of a formal meeting like we are now where it’s recorded every whatever the periodic a timeframe is, you know, whether it’s once a month, every two weeks. And it sounds like youtube or guys who were thinking it would be once per month. Right.

Speaker 2: I think that’s best and help develop the meetings. Go. I think developers somewhat adverse to too many audio base meetings personally

Speaker 5: in my view. But um, yeah, I think as long as there’s a good stream of like cat cat though in between those months

Speaker 7: we do, we do have,

Speaker 5: if anything’s urgent, um, I guess my main issue now is like if I want to ask deb questions, I go slap first, but nobody responds and I’ll jump on telegram, but response on, you know what I mean? I don’t want to be hopping around on too many different chat application, So I just one day the other devastating he views on like the ideal to I know that you know, bit clean,

Speaker 2: predict, use irc

Speaker 5: so that you can force, it’s really, you just have to see what the developers, you know, naturally using. So it’s kind of hard to, to force anything here, but

Speaker 2: I guess you just need, I guess from experience unfolding coin you just need kind of two, you know, set in stone what channel the developers going to use. So like when we’re using slack, we moved away from slack when that whole spam issue was going on and we moved to this board and there was a brief time period where the conversation was split between slack and discord and actually somebody was getting on my case because I can use in slack even though everybody else was in discord mean it takes time to transition. But the important thing is, is anybody who’s interested in developing for counterparty actually interested, we need to just set one place to do the discussion. I think discord is a fantastic tool. The developers here with me, jared and tyler, they, uh, I mean they can even do, are we even did things like creating discord bots with different features. It’s a really great tool. I think it’s way better than slack and way, way better than skype. Skype for this

Speaker 5: 2014. Got to speak to my mom, my grandmother. Um, but yeah, it’s like disco sounds fine to me. I just, I would say does it feel I get a lot of help from mainly I get a lot of input from him and he knows the protocol inside and out. So obviously, you know, if he’s not on this call, it’s a bit of a,

Speaker 2: you know, that’s true. I would be lying if I said I’m still not on various slack channels and various

Speaker 5: or that going forward. You know, it sounds like the more active devs will be people on this call. Hopefully though I know the place. I know that devin is definitely on this cord. His user name is d e weller w e r five.

Speaker 1: Ok. I call that the end of the meeting, at least for the recording sake, if that’s ok with everyone

Speaker 2: recording. I’m good if you want to end the recording, but I do have a couple more things that I wanted to get to,

Speaker 5: if they’re worthwhile. Robert, to keep in the recording, you know, we can just,

Speaker 2: it’d be more of a, it’d be more of a recap. So it’s ok

Speaker 5: if you think it’s useful for anyone listening after the fact, uh, let us know. And if you think you’d rather shut it down, I’ll shut it down.

Speaker 2: I’m agnes. We could do it. Uh, so tyler, are you, uh, are you, do you have your mic working? I knoW jared did. Uh, ok. Jared, you got your mic working?

Speaker 8: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Ok. Uh, just for cause we’re going to bring a lot of this back to miguel. Was there anything that they missed or that you have any, maybe maybe more in depth questions about them because we’ll obviously review all this with miguel and bill, but do you have anything that you maybe need to ask either dan or don tie or anything?

Speaker 8: I think so as well. We have to, uh, while they are to continuous integration stuff because there’s luck there is travis and travis as far as I know is free so that doesn’t do like does the band minimum for tests. So why don’t we just change that to do all the tests.

Speaker 1: Are you saying that there’s like the bare minimum and like mock some things up like one of the nice things about doing like a full on the federated node stock is sort of like how we maintain consensus and if there’s any failure and that stock it’s, it’s, it’s very bad

Speaker 8: looking at the depot at the very bottom of three p sets and all tests, supply command in january. Coverage report their path in coveralls past and apply that and yeah. But then circle ci, I split the tests as much as possible to make it easier to read the airports. So I’m just wondering why we don’t laksa to travelers crs on one repo. But like I don’t think circles are needed to be done on travis.

Speaker 1: That sounds like a great issue to open on get hub and that can be discussed there. The great place for that kind of a discussion. I think

Speaker 7: I always wondered the same thing about it. Whether or not it was redundant. Both of those are in a, in a, the slack.

Speaker 5: I think once you do some kind of party, deb, a common question, you ask it why was it done this way and then you have to go back and find out that, you know, x years ago it was the decision made by people who aren’t really active on the project anymore. That’s a good question to ask.

Speaker 2: Ok, I got that added to our notes and then, uh, yeah,

Speaker 7: well this is good. Go ahead jared. I’m sorry.

Speaker 8: That’s fine. Don’t worry.

Speaker 7: Well, I will say this, um, as far as between a dan and robert, these are like the two most detail oriented, uh, people in the space that I’ve known of. So this is a very positive, uh, and I’m, I’m, I’m glad that, uh, we know that robert’s taking notes and, and, and if he is, he’s catching everything.

Speaker 2: I appreciate that.

Speaker 8: Yeah,

Speaker 2: I want to help help counterparty succeed because in order for us to succeed we need counterparty to succeed. So we’d definitely, and like I said before at the beginning, we’re in a great position to where we can, we can actually really start helping. Um, so I’m really looking forward to that. We haven’t been in that position before. It’s all been about just keeping our boat afloat. Uh, but now we really want to, uh, really want to help them.

Speaker 7: That’s very, very hopeful. That’s wonderful.

Speaker 5: Yeah, same here. Obviously representing and scrub. I think it, it’s, it’s a healthy thing to do, to have people who are stakeholders in using the project be the ones who support and commit to. So it’s great

Speaker 7: folding coin. You guys are offering to reach out and help. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: I think it’d be nice if we do what we did this time where I will take this recording and I’ll transcribe it and I’ll create a counterparty talk thread that will be another place where in the comments we can say, ok, I can make this meeting. And I think when, if we can put it in the capario talk through it that we’re going to go, it shows people that like, ok, people are going. And I mean, our turnout here is three times, four times better than our last meeting. So, um, let’s just keep rolling that way.

Speaker 7: I have one thing that I want to bring up to the people are, that are on this call. So the reason that we picked this time. So, uh, is this started at 9:00 PM eastern time, 6:00 PM in California. It’s 10:00 AM on. This was friday night. It’s 10:00 AM on saturday in tokyo. The only group that has a difficult time is if someone’s in europe and I don’t know how many people that we actually have in europe that are looking to be on the call. But I guess the question I have is it, the only way we’ll accommodate them a little bit better would be, I think it would make it very early in tokyo. Um, and that really, uh, you know, affects you chris. So what would be this is right now, I figured, I figured so if we’d waited three hours earlier, it would really be rough for you, right?

Speaker 7: Yeah, it’d be better to make it like Five hours earlier and then I’ll just make it a late night. Oh, right. So I actually personally, I actually kind of, I, I think I because I worked with people in Switzerland, like the spells dionysus guys. I’m generally awake until like 4:00 AM, 5:00 AM here anyway. Ok. Competent and spend it. Do the other way. So let me throw this out to you. So if this was five hours earlier, it would be 4:00 PM on friday, eastern time. It would be 1:00 PM in California. Ah, it’d be five hours earlier, you know, for you in tokyo, which is like pretty late in the middle of the night. but it would also include, it wouldn’t be able to include europe. You think that will be a reasonable thing for other people in tokyo? Have any of the people interested in depth? You’re based in europe at the moment? I don’t know. That’s what I’m not sure. I know jared. It would help jared. He’s Currently South Africa. I know me

Speaker 5: and tyler are, I think tyler’s close to eastern time. Um, but yeah, anytime. It was really good for me. There’s not really a good time in crypto because everybody’s everywhere. Right. But I’m trying to slice the pie here so both dante just take. I can do like it. It’s ok to do like early morning for tokyo. That makes sense. People like, no, like 2:00 AM kind of time is probably do for me. If that makes you could just as easily instead of 10. So if it wasn’t this time, which was 10 in the morning for you, five hours earlier would be doable or for you only? Or is it other people going up five hours? They’re more like seven hours. There would be fIve lamps I probably met. So you’re thinking like 2:00 PM eastern time? Um, to uh, 2:00 PM eastern, which is like reasonable. It’s like what? Eleven in California? It’s like, it’s late at night. Yeah. So what time would that be? If it was seven hours earlier for you?

Speaker 6: It’d be three. Three in the morning when I posted a contrarian talk through that I can, I can drop like a doodle lincoln and just marked every time that you can make and like mathematically it’ll show like where, where the, uh, the times are best.

Speaker 5: I definitely, I just wanted to get chris’s, uh, feedback, uh, you know, and uh, you know, I wanted to get the, accommodate the majority because I think I’m the outlier here in tokyo. So the one that kind of changed the whole time, so I’m just going to be. So we didn’t have, we’d love to get to kind of do in strange times. We’d love to get koji and a few other developers better arrange your. A developer. Yeah, he’s kind of, he, he, he, he was um, he was the official community something or that the counterparty back, but he’s not anymore. So he’s, he’s not really kind of pipe loop at the moment. I’d say he’s still interested in what he’s doing these he’s doing like media and blogging and as his own thing at the moment. So got it, got it.

Speaker 6: I want people to commit access.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I think the is the is a competent dev here in the square. Do you think it has made a few pull request and done some comments on party, so it’d be nice to get him on.

Speaker 6: I feel like big because this is going to get it all transcribed. It’s going to be like paragraphs now. I’m just like small talk, so maybe we should just call this one for the recording sake out here.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I’m going to shut down the recording in just a moment.

Counterparty Developer Meeting (04-14-2018)

Ok - Let’s give this Doodle thing a try. I set it up to choose from four days and four time slots.

They are:
Sunday - June 3
Monday - June 4
Friday - June 8
Saturday - June 9

And times:
4pm EST
6pm EST
8pm EST
10pm EST

Allegedly, Doodle will automatically show you your timezone, so just mark the times you think you can make it and we’ll go with the one with the most votes. I can add more options, if you want, but Doodle gets kind of unwieldy with lots of options.


Ok, i have sent in my availability, thanks!


Ok, based on the Doodle ( the next dev meeting will take place on Friday, June 8th @ 6pm EST.

I hired someone to transcribe audio going forward, this auto generated is not that useful.